Kameelah Janan Rasheed is a learner* from East Palo Alto, CA

I called Gumbs to talk about interspecies collaboration, listening practices, and Lucille Clifton in relation to Undrowned. I feel lucky to have had a moment to speak with her. Our conversation felt like a reunion of sorts. I cannot tell you the exact moment I met Gumbs, almost a decade and a half ago, through her various online projects, but I can tell you it was an occasion of learning. And every encounter thereafter has been a generous opportunity to tenderly open a valve, return to a text with new antennae, or hold my body still in meditation.